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Poster: Time Traveller Date: Oct 21, 2009 8:17pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Question about the Scanning Service


Owning a copy (s) of PS brings up a interesting question knowing its out of copyright. Maybe you had Google Books print out a copy of their digital copy.

Owning one copy, could you not have insisted on a digital copy?

But, certainly, owning one hard copy, of a out of copy right book, paid for to Google Books, should give you the right to download the PDF from Google Books free of further charge.

1, it is out of copyright.
2, placing it on the Archive, means you are not profiting.

But the 64 million dollar question, if you bought this out of copyright book from Google Books, what restrictions of use did you agree to, the second you handed over your hard earned cash?

And can Google Books legally enforce their restrictions?

The Whole Wide World is wondering re this question, as it could be a great way for the Archive to complete missing volumes in its collection, thank you Google Books

And make the lawyers richer


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Poster: garthus Date: Oct 21, 2009 8:40pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Question about the Scanning Service


Is google actually selling the PDF files or printing out hard copy?


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Poster: Time Traveller Date: Oct 21, 2009 10:18pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Question about the Scanning Service

just selling print-outs of out of copy right books, thats its business model and why it likes its Google Books to be number one of one. Recently it said it would let other companies access its scans so they can sell reprints.

I am not sure if that includes PS, but no reason to think it does not.

So Google tried to use its monopoly on scans of out of copy right books, to create for itself a income stream by selling reprints in proper hard cover binding, and just to ensure the USA Justice Department would overlook its monopolistic actions, you can still read their scanned, out of copyright books, on line, but not download.

Google foresees being able to print a book, and bind it, while you wait. (your local reseller store)its already demonstrated the capability.

So why can you not buy the PDF yourself and print it if Google gives other companies access? (Due to damage control after the outcry about monopolist behaviour)

Google would have to charge the other companies as little as possible, for access to the PDFs, otherwise these companies and us will begin screaming "monopoly"

Legal question,

once you own a copy of a out-of-copyright book, why can you not treat it as a out-of-copy right book? (A= because Goggles logo on every page is copyrighted?)

the laws in the USA must ensure that if Google gives other companies access to its PDF files of out of copyright books, then it must give ALL companies the same right if they ask.

If Google then puts "Unfair" or monopolistic restrictions on what other companies can do with this access, then the USA justice Department should/MUST step in.

Don't forget how Bill Gates got himself into trouble, by preventing OEM PC builders from having great deals on Windows OS if they attempted to get rid off Bill's FREE Internet Explorer and push other browsers to the forefront.

(Come to think of it, Bill made IE free, partly to try and get away with forcing the OEMs not to install other browsers, if he had charged for IE he would certainly then have broken the law when he used Windows to ensure 99% market share with IE))

So, seeing they are out of copy right books that Google reprints to order, one at a time, some group like, (if not the Archive,) can set up a non-profit company and have the same access.

Then this company RESTORES the pages to the original condition they were in before Google got their sticky ink smeared hands onto them and defaced them, and then out of public spiritedness donates them to the Internet Archive (back to out-of-copyright status so Google can not moan) for future historians and others to have and love for ever, just like as if Google Books had never existed, and just been a bad dream.

And other non-profit groups would join in and help too.

It wont happen just like that, but the resulting out cry and legal battle, would very likely result in the following;

Google allowing anybody access to the out of copyright PDFs, and just pay Google only its costs to scan, store, and serve out the out of copyright PDF in question.

And seeing we hope this world exists for the life of this Universe (keeping my options open about other universes)Google must spread out over millions of years the costs of scanning the texts that the libraries gave free access too.

Costs of storage and serving the out of copy right texts are coming down every day, with new technology, already its close to that the costs of cash transactions being more than storage and serving.

On that day, Google will call it a day, and give all the out of copyright PDFs to the Internet Archive for free, seeing they were out of copy right texts, in the first place.

Brewster just orders another 20' container of servers. (maybe Google will help there, as a means of quickly cutting its $$$$$$ losses and liabilities.)

And we will be as if Google Books had never tried taking over mankind's legacy.


PS today Google announced its getting into selling music, Google Music? and tying up all out of copy right music?

PPs, if Google puts its logo on every page of scanned out of copyright texts, is that no vandalism? And was not the intent of copyright (and patent) laws, to ensure the original creator got just reward for his risk in attempting to creator a work of art, and once the creator got his/her just reward, nobody else was allowed to monopolise the work of art for further reward? Even if its just reprints?

This post was modified by Time Traveller on 2009-10-22 05:18:14